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i have to agree with mr., bu ko that whether we leave that, neither of us really want that. we want you to understand and explore the significance of the act. to do that, we are permitted to submit this relevant evidence, and it is relevant. >> ok, but what fact in dispute are using miss florez's testimony to help prove? >> we are trying to prove that this is not an insignificant -- >> ok, i don't want descriptive words. i want what fact, the actual piece of evidence, the thing that happened that will -- that this will help us decide. >> well, it will help you determine whether or not the act was more likely just a crab and indignant pull, or more likely in fact a grab and a push against the wall. if i cannot attach significance, i can point you to that factual dispute. i believe the dispute is very significant. that happens within context. we have various descriptions, one minimizing, and one -- >> any question for ms. kaiser? ok, my view it is in light of the argument of counsel and in light of the fact that we are not a jury, though i think it is very close, i do not thin
i have to agree with mr., bu ko that whether we leave that, neither of us really want that. we want you to understand and explore the significance of the act. to do that, we are permitted to submit this relevant evidence, and it is relevant. >> ok, but what fact in dispute are using miss florez's testimony to help prove? >> we are trying to prove that this is not an insignificant -- >> ok, i don't want descriptive words. i want what fact, the actual piece of evidence, the...
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Jul 23, 2012
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both of us. she said, that is public, and that is for everybody, and i do not want that. >> at that time you had that conversation with ms. haynes, had you told ross you had discussed the incident with your neighbor? >> i told him on january 4 in the afternoon when i met him on the street around 4:00 or 5:00. wax before that, had you ever advised him -- >> before that had you ever invites you had told two neighbors? did you tell ross at any time? >> no. >> did you have a conversation with ms. haynes where you put your neighbor on the telephone? >> yes. >> why did you do that? >> i thought she was not understanding what i was trying to say, so i said lynn net new the incident, because i explained it to her -- linnette knew the incident because i explained it to her. >> in this second conversation wtiith ms. haynes was the first time you found out the police had been informed? >> yes, five minutes before. >> you have learned that from ivory? >> she found me in the street and said, you are going to
both of us. she said, that is public, and that is for everybody, and i do not want that. >> at that time you had that conversation with ms. haynes, had you told ross you had discussed the incident with your neighbor? >> i told him on january 4 in the afternoon when i met him on the street around 4:00 or 5:00. wax before that, had you ever advised him -- >> before that had you ever invites you had told two neighbors? did you tell ross at any time? >> no. >> did you...
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Jul 23, 2012
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. -- a panoply of use. i did not ignore the credibility of the victim as the main point of this declaration, but i also heard that the commissioner say, is and this important for us to determine what kind that the constitutes an act of domestic violence? i heard her ask if it was support for helping the commission determined whether sheriff mirkarimi pleaded guilty to a crime of domestic violence. commissioner stubbly was concerned that there be information about the nature of domestic violence and background about how to interpret several elements or actions within the context of domestic violence. commissioner lou said that was important or that it may be important, the facts that are discussed may be important to understand how the behavior's may affect the domestic violence or why a witness would recant. those are separate things. commissioner randy wanted to know -- commissioner remy wanted to know whether it fit the definition of domestic violence, whether or not it is the legal definition. i heard ma
. -- a panoply of use. i did not ignore the credibility of the victim as the main point of this declaration, but i also heard that the commissioner say, is and this important for us to determine what kind that the constitutes an act of domestic violence? i heard her ask if it was support for helping the commission determined whether sheriff mirkarimi pleaded guilty to a crime of domestic violence. commissioner stubbly was concerned that there be information about the nature of domestic violence...
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Jul 23, 2012
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i think using an expert as rebuttal testimony, i do not think is going to be helpful to us. >> it seems to me that the commission is concerned about the opinion being based on admissible evidence. and that is admissible evidence because it is a prior inconsistent statement. none of the expert's opinion is being offered as fact evidence. it is offered as an opinion about the situation based on the indicators that the expert consider reliable. this is not being offered for -- as factual evidence. it is being offered as the basis of an opinion and it is the basis of an opinion that is found in our admissible evidence in this proceeding. >> is the march 19 press conference in evidence? ms. kaiser. >> that is a good question. you are talking about 164 and 165? my understanding is that it is not. >> you cross-examined him, did you use it with him? >> i think not. either any there paragraphs where she is lying on admitted evidence. >> the main 164 and 165 or are you speaking about 166 fax >> 166, too. is there a dissenting view. >> paragraph 184. relies on sheriff mirkarimi's decorations. >> g
i think using an expert as rebuttal testimony, i do not think is going to be helpful to us. >> it seems to me that the commission is concerned about the opinion being based on admissible evidence. and that is admissible evidence because it is a prior inconsistent statement. none of the expert's opinion is being offered as fact evidence. it is offered as an opinion about the situation based on the indicators that the expert consider reliable. this is not being offered for -- as factual...
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i am not saying that does not necessarily a hard stop but it will be helpful for us if we can plan and a think i recommendation -- i would recommend that is the expectation of how much time you have with this witness. ok. ms. lopez, before we began, i have a couple questions for you. we have on standby an interpreter, a spanish-language interpreter. would you like to have the services of the interpreter available to you? >> yes. that could be better. >> where is my interpreter? >> if i am confused about something, i can ask for words. >> i recommend we have the interpreter available. if ms. lopez feels she needs the interpreter to a understand the question or provide the answer, an interpreter was available. time. >> [inaudible] >> ok, perfect. thank you. Å the new witness and the interpreter, please? >> if the interpreter would stand and raise your right hand. you solemnly swear that you will transmitffff[$ questions d answers given to those? ms. lopez? raise your right hand. you do solemnly state and a penalty of perjury that the answers will be the truth the whole truth, and nothi
i am not saying that does not necessarily a hard stop but it will be helpful for us if we can plan and a think i recommendation -- i would recommend that is the expectation of how much time you have with this witness. ok. ms. lopez, before we began, i have a couple questions for you. we have on standby an interpreter, a spanish-language interpreter. would you like to have the services of the interpreter available to you? >> yes. that could be better. >> where is my interpreter?...
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and after our conversation, she made me feel even more scared because she also said, it she used the word all boys' network and they will cover for each other so you have to make evidence and you need something to protect yourself and fight in case you get in a custody dispute. so she told me that of course my concern was right and she used that word old boys' network. >> i move to strike everything after yes as not responsive. >> overruled. please, we need to keep it down in here. >> your husband has told you he is a powerful man more than once. >> i think that has been asked and answered. >> overruled. >> are you asking me if he said that more than once? no. actually, he never said that. that was my conclusion. he never said i am a powerful man. that was the conclusion of the 40 minute conversation. he said he is a part -- he is more powerful than me. that was my conclusion. he never said i am a powerful man like a sentence. >> did he ever say he is very powerful? you said in the video that he said he is very powerful. >> yes. >> you do not want your husband to take theo away from
and after our conversation, she made me feel even more scared because she also said, it she used the word all boys' network and they will cover for each other so you have to make evidence and you need something to protect yourself and fight in case you get in a custody dispute. so she told me that of course my concern was right and she used that word old boys' network. >> i move to strike everything after yes as not responsive. >> overruled. please, we need to keep it down in here....
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i said she was not using my name. she told me everything was confidential. >> now, you were aware -- as of january 2, you were aware that the situation with your husband was serious? >> objection, vague. chairperson hur: , ms. lopez, do you understand the question? >> can you repeat the question? chairperson hur: sustained. >> did you -- in the email that ivory madison sent to you, she said that your situation was serious. >> there's no question pending. chairperson hur: that's not a question. >> ms. lopez, did you understand that the email to include ivory madison advising you that your situation was serious? >> yes, she sent me this email on january 2, yes. so -- but that was not our conversation on january 1. >> i understand. >> ok. >> now, in this email, ivory madison advised you to call the police every time that -- that there was improper behavior by your husband toward you. >> if she advised me that? >> yes, how did you interpret this email? what advice did she give to you regarding calling the police in respon
i said she was not using my name. she told me everything was confidential. >> now, you were aware -- as of january 2, you were aware that the situation with your husband was serious? >> objection, vague. chairperson hur: , ms. lopez, do you understand the question? >> can you repeat the question? chairperson hur: sustained. >> did you -- in the email that ivory madison sent to you, she said that your situation was serious. >> there's no question pending....
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>> i think all of us are in the same situation. i am open to whatever is better for all of you. >> let's take a break. can we be back at 7:15? 7:20. thank you. >> we are back in session. but we are missing our witness. >> council, while we're waiting, my plan for the rest of the evening is if we finish ms. lopez, go to the floor as testimony, the rebuttal exhibits, levon declaration, the chair's request for testimony, and want to talk to you about what findings and a brief that we would like in advance of august 16. >> you understand you're still under oath? >> yes. >> edison for the interpreter. >> good evening, miss lopez. have you had a chance to lead -- or read the declaration that ivory madison submitted for these proceedings? >> yes. >> did you see what she said about the conversation that the to have you had on january 1? >> yes. >> are the things that she said you said during that conversation accurate? are they true? >> no. there is some misunderstanding. >> you remember where she wrote in the declaration that you told her
>> i think all of us are in the same situation. i am open to whatever is better for all of you. >> let's take a break. can we be back at 7:15? 7:20. thank you. >> we are back in session. but we are missing our witness. >> council, while we're waiting, my plan for the rest of the evening is if we finish ms. lopez, go to the floor as testimony, the rebuttal exhibits, levon declaration, the chair's request for testimony, and want to talk to you about what findings and a...
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use your power. from that phone call you have, did you know that lopez was going to text the sheriff? >> absolutely not. >> she did not tell you about planned communications? >> absolutely not. she was forming? >> she only shared her emotions? >> that is correct. >> after that text, there is a series of back-and-forth between you and mrs. lopez, and at 5:57, you talked to ms. lopez again for seven-. you recommend -- to you recollect now the purpose of that call? >> i do not. Ñ she suggested calling mike hennessey? >> she did not. >> in the middle of that phone t a response, i cannot and neither can he. you have to reject the actions. we both do. i cannot involve new people. did she tell you about getting that text? . >> the you know what it meant -- did you know what it meant? >> that is speculation. >> i am asking. >> i did not. >> ok, so that comes in at 5:51. no, that is wrong. i apologize. that comes in at 6:01 in the middle of a phone call you are having with lopez the glass until 6:00 for -- t
use your power. from that phone call you have, did you know that lopez was going to text the sheriff? >> absolutely not. >> she did not tell you about planned communications? >> absolutely not. she was forming? >> she only shared her emotions? >> that is correct. >> after that text, there is a series of back-and-forth between you and mrs. lopez, and at 5:57, you talked to ms. lopez again for seven-. you recommend -- to you recollect now the purpose of that...
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yesterday evening, whether there are additional seats that you had reserved that you're not longer using. if that's the case, please let the sheriff know and we can allow a few more people in. if you're still waiting for others, we understand you need to reserve your seats. >> i think we only need a total of five. so if there's still 10 reserved, we can release five. chairperson hur: ok. so i guess you can release five seats. ms. lopez, let me remind you that you are still under oath. do you understand that? >> i understand. chairperson hur: and same for the interpreter, you understand you are still under oath? >> yes, i understand. chairperson hur: mr. keith, you may proceed. >> good evening, ms. lopez. have you communicated with your husband's attorneys, mr. kopp or mr. wagner at any time before tonight? >> i just give him a little back and say hello and i bring a present for him from venezuela because i think they are doing a great job, both of you. i have one for you, too. >> have you had any conversations with them about the events of december 31 or anything that happened after that
yesterday evening, whether there are additional seats that you had reserved that you're not longer using. if that's the case, please let the sheriff know and we can allow a few more people in. if you're still waiting for others, we understand you need to reserve your seats. >> i think we only need a total of five. so if there's still 10 reserved, we can release five. chairperson hur: ok. so i guess you can release five seats. ms. lopez, let me remind you that you are still under oath. do...
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>> i would not use those words. i would use that she was incredibly stressed and like i described, sounding like she is crying, about to cry. chairperson hayon: where she crying when you first said hello? was there someone on the other end crying or sounding agitated or upset. >> no. on the phone call she sounded like she was stressed trade she passed the phone off to the female that we now know as ivory madison. chairperson hayon: one question that has been bothering me a little bit and this would go to the first phone call, given their position -- your position as ross mirkarimi's campaign managemer -- manager and to get a call from his wife about these incidents. did you not feel that you should recuse yourself and not involve yourself with this woman? i mean, you are in a questionable position. you are close to mr. mirkarimi, you ran his campaign. you have acknowledged it did not now -- you did not know ms. lopez except for some supervision conversation months ago, you were not friends or even true quinces. why
>> i would not use those words. i would use that she was incredibly stressed and like i described, sounding like she is crying, about to cry. chairperson hayon: where she crying when you first said hello? was there someone on the other end crying or sounding agitated or upset. >> no. on the phone call she sounded like she was stressed trade she passed the phone off to the female that we now know as ivory madison. chairperson hayon: one question that has been bothering me a little...
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use your power. when you wrote "use your power" what power were you referring to? >> if you are a supervisor and you just become a sheriff, do something. >> ok. now, you had a -- you did send another text to your husband at 6:05 that evening. it's in evidence and in fact it's on the lower part of the page i just handed you. it says, don't write any other thing. answer linnette call, she has some advises. did ms. peralta haynes advise you not to write anything about what was going on? >> i think this is -- tell me which time again? >> this was a message that was sent at 6:05. >> i recall to -- because that was from my brother in venezuela. he said you should close -- say i told him what was happening and he told me close the facebook page, don't write anything. and don't talk anymore by phone because maybe they are listening. >> ok. so you sent this text message in response to getting that call -- to getting that advice from your brother? >> yes. and it -- >> did you actually speak with your brother on the phone? >> i don't remember if i did by phone or through skyp
use your power. when you wrote "use your power" what power were you referring to? >> if you are a supervisor and you just become a sheriff, do something. >> ok. now, you had a -- you did send another text to your husband at 6:05 that evening. it's in evidence and in fact it's on the lower part of the page i just handed you. it says, don't write any other thing. answer linnette call, she has some advises. did ms. peralta haynes advise you not to write anything about what...
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-- i do not remember if at that point i knew she was using our names. when i found that -- maybe i knew at that point that she was using our names. on january 4. that i understood she will never call the police without my consent. so i was trying to be clear on january 4. i do not want to call the police. i want to call a therapist. this is what my emails are about therapy. >> so when you decided to go out and talk to cali williams, at that point in time, did you think ivory madison was out there calling your political enemies -- your husband's consent, or did you think that ivory madison wasn't going to call anybody without your consent? >> you are right. very tupeid. i think we were -- for me saying we are not going to call the police, i'm not going to call the police, that plan doesn't work. so let's go back to the first plan, who was in case ross doesn't want to do therapy with me and finally we end in a vorgs, she will help me with the -- in a divorce, she will help me with the custody. so for that thing she told me, do you think cali williams hear
-- i do not remember if at that point i knew she was using our names. when i found that -- maybe i knew at that point that she was using our names. on january 4. that i understood she will never call the police without my consent. so i was trying to be clear on january 4. i do not want to call the police. i want to call a therapist. this is what my emails are about therapy. >> so when you decided to go out and talk to cali williams, at that point in time, did you think ivory madison was...
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for us and answer the he -- the question. i understand there are things you may want to see and like i said, the sheriff's council will have a chance to question you but you need to answer the questions and if you would help in that regard, i would appreciate it. >> i will be shorter. >> in fact, if i could have the court reporter read back the question. [the court reporter read back the question] >> did ms. peralta haynes say anything about what she said to call the police in that telephone call? >> no. >> now, ms. lopez, i'm going to ask you to look at another exhibit. it's an exhibit that's already been marked, i'll bring you a copy. it's a sect exhibit that's exilingtsed exhibit 8 0 and is a single message for you to look at. for the benefit of the commission and counsel, this is exhibit 8 0 and is a text message of january 4, 2012 at 1203 p.m. and also reflected on exhibit 8 3 if the commission wants to go to that. but i've got the copy of the actual text message from exhibit 8 0. it's a text message from sheriff mirkari
for us and answer the he -- the question. i understand there are things you may want to see and like i said, the sheriff's council will have a chance to question you but you need to answer the questions and if you would help in that regard, i would appreciate it. >> i will be shorter. >> in fact, if i could have the court reporter read back the question. [the court reporter read back the question] >> did ms. peralta haynes say anything about what she said to call the police in...